Tuesday, December 16, 2008
Only Time Will Tell
In the chapters we read tonight, Kerouac constantly refers to time or how characters "know time". If I remember correctly, he previously mentioned that God exists, because "we know time". It seems as if Sal is impatient with time, but has no trouble moving on. I was wondering if anyone has any thoughts on how the theme of change and time affect this novel and these characters.
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21 comments:
I don't think time itself is the issue; rather, i think it is the places Sal goes and the things he learn over time that matter. On his many travels, he's exposed to many new people/places/things, and many of these change his opinions on varying topics, like love and his self-image.
Hmm, very thought provoking Liv. I think the concept of time definitely affects Dean the most out of all the characters. At the beginning of On the Road, it seems as if Dean is always impatient with time and feels as if there isn't enough time to complete everything he wants to complete. Also, he has a very strict schedule that he follows, and his day is very specifically planned out. However, as the novel progresses, I have notices that Dean seems to be more lenient with his schedule. Sal also comments on the noted change in Dean's personality. In part 2, Dean seems to have a more "live and let be" attitude, letting life and its events take its natural course instead of planning every day down to the exact detail.
Time is definitely a factor in the story. I find it interesting that Sal always knows when it is time for him to move on and go back on the road, or head back to the east. Time shows up in many different places throughout the book as already seen by the examples provided. In addition, it is kind of weird how no one cares how long it takes for them to get places, but once they get there, Sal always knows when it is time to go. It always seems that Sal know when "things are collapsing," and once he realizes this he decides to go back on the road. I like the topic choice because it will be interesting to see how everything ends up when all is said and done.
I agree with Charlie with the point that time is not the issue. I think change in wants and character are more of the issue. For example, Part 2 was all about how Sal is changing and becoming less and less a part of the "Beat" Group. also, he goes from wanting to be with Dean to wanting to get as far away from Dean as possible.
On a side note, does anyone think that the scene between the rooni man from the Jazz club and Dean remind you of Ms Siegel? I could totally see her talking to someone and every time that other person says a "key/buzz" word, Ms Siegel goes YEAH AND YES.
When i think of time, I think of a man-made system that dictates one's life.With Dean and Sal, I think they MAKE their own time by choosing what to do and WHEN to do it. They don't hang around, waiting for things to happen and their lives to change- rather, they get on the road and somehow or another, do what it takes to get to the place they're going.. I think time means absolutely nothing to Sal and Dean and Carlo..yet, "knowing time" plays a substantial role in their lives. And, when Dean says "God exists because we know time," he's basically just saying the reason for our whole being is the notion that we make our being- we, as in our actions, dictate our own lives.
btw---I really liked this question Olivia
Perhaps the author is trying to say that as time passes and how much things change, they all stay the same. They are all still going to be friends and they are all going to have the same personalities. For example, Sal briefly talks about how Dean isn't the best of guys when it comes to being a gentlemen and being loyal. He says he never had been and then during the roadtrip he ditches them again. So we could interpret that Kerouac is trying to show that the more things change, the more they stay the same.
Time isn't really the issue. If you think of time as just being every minute of every second, then yes, it is an issue for them. Rather, I sorta agree with Charlie, but also i sort of see something else. Time isn't an issue to them because they HAVE time. They have manana and it has always been like that, never before have they ever had a deadline to doing something or getting somewhere. I think this is a theme that Kerouac displays. I think he wants us to realize that there is a manana and that the present isn't all there is for us to live for...
Time definitely affects this novel. Going by the physical sense of this, time is what makes Sal change, over time, he changes and realizes new things and new truths. Above this though is another idea that states that time determines what the character is and who it is. As there is the young, innocent baby, the foolish child, the wild young adult, and the tired elders, There is this idea in the book. At first, Sal in general is this sort of less restrained person who does what he will. Over time though, he becomes more restrained and more into what is in the future and what it is he should be doing... (correct me if im wrong in nything, plz)
Time definitely plays some role in the story. First of all, all these beat generation characters seem to approach life with a carpe diem attitude – as if their time is very finite. And Sal, as someone said, instinctively knows when it is time to leave, etc. However, at least for me, it’s very hard to get a grasp on the time of the story (if that makes sense). Monsieur Sigaud and Mr. Schecner, you guys don’t think that time plays any role in the story?
Benjy, I don’t know if the comparison between Slim Gaillard and Ms. Siegel is completely accurate. I do think, however, that Dean’s adoration of Gaillard (“he thought Slim was God”) says a lot about Dean. I find it bit surprising considering Dean’s sort of “center of attention”, womanizing nature.
Kristy, I don't think Kerouac is suggesting that the all the characters stay the same despite time and changes around them. Throughout the novel, there is a definite evolution in (at the very least) Sal's character and deepening divide between Sal's friends.
Good thought Olivia, very good thought...
I think that Sal, like Kerouac, is good at reading people. At many points in the novel, he hints toward the fact that he does not want to overdo his welcome at the places he stays, or saying that things are collapsing. He's a people person, so it's not that he's impatient with time, he just doesn't hold the kinds of friendships that can allow for him to stay one place at a time, unless it's with Dean.
But I definitely agree with Charlie in that more powerful than time is the events that occur in Sal's life at any particular time. It's complicated.
liv good question the title made me laugh. i agree with most of the posts but like we learned that with the beats time is not really an issue - they just have hours of discussions and then sleep... and then continue their discussion at the next days meeting - they're dependent on "manana".at the same time though i think sal doesnt really know what to do with time he has left - especially because people in this generation dont live to be very old. hes divorced and cant stay in one place. he even admits that he always asks girls what they want out of life - because he doesnt know himself. dean on the other hand is the opposite in my opinion and doesnt care about time or plans - he just lives.
benj- just cause everyones ignoring you except clark who rejected your comparison.... i can kind of hear it, it just depends on like the tone of voice she'd say it
I also believe that time is a major factor in the novel. I think time mostly affects dean in this novel but aso has an affect on Sal. Dean states that he knows time and in the previous chapters time seemed not to matter to him, i think as dean matures he realizes time is important and that he shouldnt waste his life which contributes to his sudden belief in god. Time also affects Sal with women in my opinion because he might feel that he is running out of time to find the right girl which may make him give up hope and he will continue sleeping around.
Thanks pliz for agreeing with me. As for Clark, he is just mad that we beat him in volleyball in gym, but i will still answer his question.
At least for me, (i have no idea about charlie), time is in the story because the book took place with a setting that had a time period. But besides that, time does not seem that important to Sal. Sal changes his character from experience and although experience is sometimes related to time, it does not ahve to be.....
i think katie said it perfectly. I think that time has almost no effect on most of the characters in the book. THey get from place to place however and whenever they can and have no very specific agenda. Although Sal is anticipating the West and may seem as though he was in a rush, I don't think he would hesitate if there was an appealing detour. Dean doesn't pay much attention to time either as he is traveling the same way and will talk spontaneously into the middle of the night but he did once show regard for time when he was scheduling his women in the night. overall though, i don't think time is a concept that really affects them.
Wow. Really good question! What I actually thought of most when I read it was a quote from last night's reading. When Sal is talking about this dream he had of being chased, he says, "Something, someone, some spirit was pursuing all of us across the desert of life and was bound to catch us before we reached heaven" (124). Then he goes on to say that this "must be death," and how death chases all of us.
Mostly, I think this goes along with the Beat mentality that life is short, and so we have to live life to its fullest... while we can. Although it seems like the Beats are very laid back, they aren't just lazing around, at least in their view. They are spending life the way they spend it. Contrary to a lot of stuff that's been said here so far, I think the Beats are EXTREMELY aware of time... even if this awareness is partly subconscious.
With all the detours and stops along the way, picking up hitchikers and meeting with old buddies, the gang has a lot of time on their hands. They don't have set appointments; they act on impulses, especially Dean, with Sal and Marylou following him around. What change there is doesn't seem to affect them much either, whether it's dropping Ed Dunkel off at New Orleans or Marylou leaving Sal at San Francisco. Basically they accept these changes and continue with their goal, taking their time as well. One thing that seems to impact them more is the place they are at, such as the muddy brown river at New Orleans, the field of snakes (which I can just imagine would be pretty thrilling), and the mountains and the red sun of Arizona. Especially Sal, their mood seems to change from place to place, though Dean is still ecstatic as before.
A couple of things....
Benjy you are completely right that Clark is upset we beat him in volleyball...
Also, I agree that time is important, but it is not the main issue. Especially during a road trip, it is difficult not to think about time. I think the book is definitely more about how the characters change overtime.
One thing that stuck out at me during the reading...Dean and Sal talk a lot about religion. For instance, at the beginning of Chapter 10, Sal describes a dream about the big snake of the world that he told Marylou about: "I told her this snake was Satan" (171). Usually religion is more related to conservatism. In their case, maybe it is more about the faith and believing in something because it is hard to believe in America and its conformity. I'm not sure, but I though it was interesting. Let me know what you think...
maybe by time he means the things they have been through and the things they have learned, also since dean has changed for the better, he is a deeper person now, as a result of the palces he has been, proves that g-d exists
Thanks everyone for the comments on this question. After reading everyone's comments over, I have definitely formulated some ideas over this topic myself. I think that the beats look at time in a different perspective, not hour by hour, or minute by minute, but year by year or decades by decades. I think Sal is very aware that his life is flashing before his eyes, while upon these road trips, because it seems as if he is always anxious to go home and write again and finish his story. Even though he never literally says it out load, I think he is aware that he of when he is wasting his time, hence his slogan "things are collapsing."
Katie - I thought everything you said about "knowing time" was apt and I completely agree with you
Clark- I definitely understand what you are saying about how it is difficult to grasp the time of the story. I never really know how long the characters spend in a certain place, or how much time they actually spend on the road trip. I do think Kerouac did that for a reason, which many people touched upon, while describing the fact that the beats don't recognize time as an issue.
Justin- I think your point about time relating to Sal and women will play a role in the novel later, when he finally realizes he doesn't have forever to find a wife.
BTW, maybe the entire theme of time relates to the west in some sort of way. (sorry if I'm stretching this too far). Maybe Sal is trying to escape the "new york minute" and find a laid-back life style of life in which time is not an issue.
OH MY GOD... ITS THE END OF THE WORLD!!!
I'm about to AGREE with Cedric!!!
Well, here goes. Time is not a very important issue. The connections between characters, like Sal and Dean's relatoinship, is very important. Time has very little effect on the pair, as was shown earlier in the book when they are just as crazy and go on the road again after not seeing each other for a year.
When in Chapter 8 Sal Says "we know time" it has a sarcastic tone to it. This is said after he lost sense of time and what happenned in an alcohol/drug- driven span of time.
I agree with a lot of what people previously said about Dean. I think before God came into the picture with Dean, he seemed to waste away time and did not live every moment. He was always rushing and never focused on one thing for too long. Now that religion has taken place, I believe Dean will soon realize that he should become more focused on the necessities that life may bring him rather than doing useless things and wasting time.
WOW very interesting question... Once again i will most likely be the last to post so I'm not going to start another conversation like last time... However, I do think that with these characters time is what they make of it. Early on like many of you said Dean was very impatient and feels like everything should happen in a timely fashion in order to make sure everything he schedules gets done. Later we notice that his attitude changes and becomes less of a stickler and starts to be a bit more patient and kind of lets things just sort of happen.
To Sal time means when it is time to go. As he reaches a certain destination he just realizes when a certain amount of time has passed it is no longer necessary to be there.
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