Chapters 3 and 4 give us profound insight on our main characters, Alice and Frank, and the strained dynamic between them. After it seemed (at least to me) in Chapters 1 and 2 that Frank was most certainly the “bad guy”, Alice was definitely shown in a much more negative light in Chapters 3 and 4. I was surprised to learn that she had very seriously proposed what is tantamount to abortion.
Personally, I think that they are both at fault, and their actions are morally repugnant – especially considering the cost to their children. They are the real victims in this relationship.
What do you think? Which character is “right”, and who is more at fault for the troubles in the relationship? Are either of their behaviors justifiable or tolerable, especially considering their troubled pasts? Is it possible to sympathize with them at all?
I also found it interesting that, despite what Alice promised, their male child is named Michael, not Frank. This is likely one of many indications of April's fickleness.
14 comments:
Well, from what we have read so far in the book, I think that April is definitely more at fault for the troubles in their relationship. It seems like she is very difficult and unable to compromise with Frank, which leads to fights and isolation between the two of them.
Also, I found the whole passage about April's parents very weird. It was hard for me to understand how she could still love and respect two parents who had essentially abandoned her. Therefore, I don't think her acts are justifiable based on the neglect of her childhood because she seems to have forgiven her parents.
I don't agree Becca. I feel that since April was neglected, she tried to love her parents more. It wasn't about them abandoning her. It was about her as a child, needing support and love, and her parents were the ones she looked to. I also think that this neglect affected her on the inside. She puts on this outer mask, even with Frank around.
I think that they are both at fault for their horrible relationship. They both have done things wrong. Also, I feel that neither one tries to understand where the other is coming from. And Clark, you are right, the children are the victims of this relationship. Not only do they have to witness their parents fighting, but sometimes the anger is taken out on them.
I would have to say that both April and Frank are at fault for the fights that occur during their relationship, however, I think that April is more at fault for this than Frank. I agree with Rebecca in the fact that April is very difficult to deal with in terms of compromising, which makes it even more difficult for Frank to attempt to end the fight. He is tries to apologize numerous times but April just seems to reject the apologies like they were half-hearted. I think that this relationship is going to be very difficult in the future, but also I agree that the children are the victims of this kind of relationship. The fights are angering the parents, which leads to taking their anger out on the children, which is not fair at all, which is what Nikki was saying.
I definitely agree with Becca. April i more at fault in the relationship, because she is so inflexible. Yet, she never sticks to decisions, so she also always ends the fight too. For example, regarding the issue of the abortion she initiates the fight, but eventually realizes she was wrong, so she apologizes. I think this is a pattern that repeats itself a lot and will continue to occur.
I think their past lives definitely have an effect on the type of adults they became. April having such a troubled background, probably has tried to make as much of a normal life as an adult as she can. I think this is the reason she tries to hide all of their problems and acts so fake. She just wants to be normal, because she wasn't able to have a perfect childhood.
I think April is less at fault. Frank is pursuing the problems and turning it into what he desires while April desires to just drop the past and move on. Frank is being sort of one-sided, only looking for what he wants, which is to move towards the stereotypical, conservative nuclear family. April just wants to live life and forget the problems that Frank brings up to achieve this
i kind of agree with zach...btw sorry about the chargers...but that their parents are both at fault in a sort of "monkey see, monkey do" kind of way. They were both raised in what seemed to be stressful environments in which their parents tried to mold them into their ideal beings; i think all of that pressure becomes to much for both characters.
That being said, i feel as though April pushes on the troubles more than Frank; her snide, backhanded comments seem to hurt him more than his physical abuse hurts her, because Frank, a chauvinist, realizes that he may not be able to keep up with his wife.
I agree with Rebecca, April is at more fault than Frank in their relationship. I personally believe that Frank's behavior is not only tolerable, but its rather normal for a 1950s family. April on the other hand, acts absolutely unreasonable at almost every time her name is mentioned. I can sympathize with April when she is angry at Frank for sitting in the house while she mows the lawn, but in all other respects, Frank deserves more sympathy.
Cedric, I disagree when you say that Frank is trying to direct his arguments toward his desires. I think that Frank is simply trying to make peace with his wife, and discover what it is that always troubles her. It is only when her behavior reaches an unbearable level that Frank becomes angry.
Overall, April is far more abusive than Frank, and she needs to cooperate and discuss things with Frank in order to rebuild their relationship.
Well, neither of them are actually at fault. I think society is at fault for telling them to act in a certain way and be the ideal family even thoguh they are clearly not the ideal family. Both Frank and April have faults which can lead to a divorce, but we all have faults. Society tells them that they should hide their faults which means that every time their fault is exposed, it is magnified.
p.s nice job using alice the whole time clark....
Although most people are saying it is APril's fault, we have to keep in mind that this story is being told from Frank's view. Therefore, we as the reader might be a little biased....
I think that Michael/Frank thing is interesting. Ithe characters, even if they don't know exactly what they do want, sort want to be in any other situation or life than the one they are in. I think it is entirely possible to sympathize with them. I definitely sympathize with them both a whole lot and I think even equally. They are both so tortured individually and living such desperate lives. They seem like they're suffocating and can't save eachother or even themselves. I'm not sure about this but I also sort of wondered if Frank is sort of hypocrytical or just torn. He says everyone lives identical boring lives but I think maybe if April wasn't so miserable he could get used to living the suburban way that they do. I sort of get this idea because he was so interested in his fathers briefcase when he was young. This might be trying to show a more conformist part of his personality. Not that I think that he likes the whole dull suburbs thing but I wonder if he would be more resigned to it if April wasn't just as depressed.
I feel that April is at fault so far in the novel. But the point as Benji said is it is told in Frank's view. Since they are both involved in the fight he tends to make April's side seem worse. If it were Aprils view of the story we may have been able to understand how she is feeling against Frank. I also feel they have a hard time thinking and admitting that they may have been wrong. If they continue to not see what they did wrong in themselves then the fight will never be resolved.
Benjy: Oh, my bad.
Charlie: I am not sure I understand. How is Frank a chauvinist? How does being a chauvinist make Frank incapable of keeping up with his wife?
whats a chauvinist?
and... i'm a day late but i dont think its fair to take sides in an argument until you at least hear both sides, and at least from my personal reading.. we only know frank's position. we dont know whats going on necessarily in aprils mind, all we know is she seems cold.
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