What'd you think of the last couple of chapters? did anything surprise you?
Also, who do you think was more affected by April's death? Frank or Shep?
Frank... although directly following her death, is compared to a drunk man that can hardly walk on page 335, doesnt seem to have a problem carrying on with his life. In fact, he even moves to the city and gets rid of his children aside from the weekend visits. In my POV, April's death allows Frank to live.
Shep on the other hand, will always remember exactly what he was doing in the moment that April died, and he cries over her, and is sickened by his wife's progressive need to gossip about it like its a soap opera and is if the campbells are the victims of this tragedy.
Lastly, do you think that April's note really had any affect on Frank? Without it would he have truly felt responsible? I personally dont think Frank is strong/man enough to take ever take responsibilty or feel guilty for his actions.
14 comments:
I agree that Shep was more affected by April's suicide than Frank because the last that we heard about Frank in the text was that he was doing fine and his new job was going well. The last scene with Shep alone in the backyard crying about April shows that he is having trouble moving on and overall seems to be more affected by April's death. I also think that the way they act following this tragedy indicates who had stronger feelings for April.
Well, for that last question, I think the note definitely impacted Frank. He said on page 346 that if he had not found April's note, he probably would have killed himself that night. I think that April's note convinced Frank that he wasn't the cause of her suicide, even though that might be true. Although I think April has proved herself to be very unlikable in the last couple of chapters, I do think she redeemed herself with the note. It seemed like the first time she was thinking about anyone other than herself.
And I definitely agree with Elizabeth about the impacts of her death on Frank and Shep. I think the death makes Shep. regretful that he hadn't pursued April earlier.
Well her committing suicide was a surprise. I mean, there was something weird with the way she was acting at the end of the sixth chapter, but I didn't think she would kill herself and the potential baby. The fact that new people would move into the Wheelers' previous house is a tad surprising. I would avoid such a house, just out of superstition.
I think they were both affected, greatly by April's death, though Shep can't seem to get over it, and thinks lowly of Frank for being able to. Frank isn't exactly careless about the ordeal anymore, but he seems to have turned into an ideal 1950's person with a decent job and casualness. I think April's note did have good effect from preventing Frank from blaming himself in any violent way, though Shep saying that Frank wouldn't have had the guts to kill himself may be sort of true.
Truthfully, I was not surprised with April's suicide. I definitely had a feeling something eerie (like the abortion and knowing that she was going to die) was going to happen right at the end of the book, mainly because there will never be a happy ending for April and Frank Wheeler. I think their relationship really took a turn for the worse after April becomes pregnant with unwanted child #3. I think Frank and Shep are equally affected by April's death because honestly, they both did somehow love her. I was also not surprised when Millie and Mrs. Givings turn out to be just like the rest of Revolutionary Road- fake. Millie begins gossiping about April's death, rather than mourning it, while Mrs. Givings moves on so quickly to the Braces she doesn't even have time to feel guilt, remorse, or sorrow. In the end, I'm glad Frank and the kids got away and escaped Revolutionary Road.
I agree with Katie because although Frank and Shep handle April's death in different ways, I think they are equally affected.
I thought what Derek said about Frank finally becoming the typical lifeless 1950s man was interesting. I agree in the sense that he conforms to society and just goes through the motions of life without really living. However, he does not really care about what others think because he gave his children to his brother. I feel that society would shun this. Essentially, I think that April's death disposed of the fire and desire to live within Frank.
I think Frank is more negatively affected by her death than Shep. Not only does Frank lose his wife, but he also loses control of his own life. I don't think he voluntarily gave up his own children, but out of necessity. Also, he wasn't living at all, as described by Shep when Frank comes to visit. On the other hand, Shep does change, but on a more positive note. He becomes closer to Milly and appreciates her more. He is also able to move on and get over April.
The last couple of chapters most certainly surprised me. First of all, I never thought April would go out that way, and the ending was a little abrupt. You would think that there would be some sort of narrative moral passage that makes somebody really think, but it kind of just ended with Howard Givings ignoring what his wife had to say, I'm sure this is symbolic of the fact that Frank turned off his life and ignored it when April died, but it was still kind of weird.
Elizabeth, I have to disagree about April's death allowing Frank to live. I think that Frank moves to the city and leaves his kids because all of that is a reminder of April, and I personally think he loved her so much he sort of lost the ability to be human. I think that he moves into the city because it involves less housework, less commuting, and more of an opportunity to be lonely without worrying about what the suburbanites think, because many people associate New York City with being the loneliest place on Earth, I disagree with that, but okay.
I think Shep is affected by April's death, but it is really a kind of affect that happens when somebody dies who we are not totally connected to. I think that Frank's loss of personality, emotion, and care is the result of a deep, deep scar that came when he lost his wife, where Shep is more of a "I'm sad, she was a good gal." Also, I think that Milly's rants can get anyone in an uproar.
So overall, April's death had a profound affect on Frank's life, and he really does feel responsible, but he's just beyond the point of self-destruction to act on repaying his debt.
liv you think he was more in control of his life when april was alive?
and becca i semi disagree with the note... shep says he wouldnt have the guts to kill himself and i dont really think he would either. personally i think frank is definitely a part of the reason she killed herself - just before in their argument, he told her he wished that she had had an abortion. but i think he just believes what he wants to and without the note, he would have eventually justified himself in his own mind to come to peace with it.
i thought it was kind of funny also that frank kept telling april to go see an analyst and then he ends up going to one and being obsessed
clayton that symbolism thing was really good... i actually thought it was hilarious that she found the plants in the cellar. also... the novel started [not the first page but in the beginning] when mrs givings gave frank the weeds or whatever and it ended with it - maybe symbolizes a full circle? or maybe its like the wheelers got too caught up in protecting their image [they hide the plant so mrs givings doesnt know] but it got too much for both frank and april because society kept them from doing what could possibly make them happy.. and therefore they give up - april commits suicide and frank moves to the city and the plant is left for the wheelers to be openly judged by society
i think Shep was more affected by her death than Frank was. I agree that after she died Frank was able to live his life but not because she died because she left him that note..in other words maybe if they had justt divorced or gone their own separate ways they could have both pursued what they wanted to.
You can't say that either of the two were more affected by April's death. They reacted differently... By looking at the book from a defensive Mechanism standpoint, you can say that Frank is sort of in this displacement, regression phase. He sort of just tries to chuck away his emotions and transfer his love to Millie. This is shown when he talks about her being there, still living, and it also reveals that its a false sense of closeness that Shep is feeling for April. There's this regression phase in which he sort of just drinks and just tries to cry out his love for April. He just sits in the corner and sulks or whatever throughout the rest of his life I guess you could say...
Frank had this avoidance/Selective Memory Phase. He remembered the stuff he wanted to remember about April, which was this sorta feminine side that loved him. This was destroyed though when Shep came to the house, because almost subconsciously, I think he realized who Shep was and what he wanted from April pre-death. Since his Selective Memory failed when he "lost" April's voice, he sorta went into this avoidance phase. The avoidance phase was basically death...
I don;t think you can compare the two...
Honestly, I think the note had little impact on Frank. Maybe it pushed him to the extreme avoidance which was being absorbed in what he hated, but thats about it for me.
Hehehehehehe... You know what this reminds me of? The Korean Drama Haeshin (Emperor of the Sea) Its about this former slave who becomes a very rich merchant named JangBogo, but he later dies, leaving his lover in this disastrous state. Its a tragic drama where basically everyone dies, but it sorta shows like the realities of life, which is that success is a lonely path of backstabbing and that to reach success, you often have to give up other emotions like love. Jang Bogo had to give that up, which later i fell destroys him and his lover, making them both these empty shells of success that wonder around looking for purpose... There's also the other dude, who loves the girl (Jung Hwa). His name's Yeum Jang and he pursues his love, which later destroys him. If anyone is interested in watching this KDrama or other Dramas, I can create a class account on AZNV since i only have one invitation left. Talk to me if you're interested! Haeshin is a fantastic drama AKA Emperor of the Sea
There's also the drama, Kingdom of the Winds. Dojin commits suicide because of his love, the battle to win Yeon ends up killing her, and Muhyul can't commit suicide or be in grief because of his civil duties. It sorta shows the tragedy that is human flaw and desire...
Nothing really suprised me in the last chapters. It was sort of a shame but it was definitely fitting that there was no happy ending. I'm not totally positive who was more affected by April's death. It's a good question. I actually think maybe Frank might have been. I think he definitely had a problem carrying on his life. He is from then on described as a shell of man basically. He seems sort of souless. Shep cries about it but it seems that he goes back to Milly and carries on. Frank can't even take care of his kids on his own. I agree that the note didn't really affect Frank but for different reasons. I think that even with the note, he takes responsibility for what happened with April.
Yeah, I think Shep was more affected. Even April admits before her death that her and Frank were never really in love and they were just always saying what the other wanted to hear. "You're the most interesting person I have ever met..." etc, etc. Shep I think genuinely loved April. It shows from his total grief after her death.
No, I don't think the suicide was a surprise. Yates's tone has hinted at it since the first chapter. He even made references, I believe, to the Laurel Players in the suicide chapter. There's all this imagery of ants and blood and suffocating. Plus there's this rejection of the idea to go to Paris from the very start, and so it makes you think, "Well... what's really going to ultimately stop them?"
I think that it impacted Frank more because he becomes lifeless and emotionless. Shep describes this on page 347, when he says "Because that was the whole point; that was the way he'd seemed when he came to call that March afternoon; a walking; talking, smiling, lifeless man. Frank no longer has any point to live and he just cares about his work after and he gives his children to his brother to take care of. Shep on the hand, got over her death, he cried but he got over it and he began to appreciate his wife more
I thought that the end was just as good as the rest of the book. I agree with Jasia - all things considered, the suicide was not a surprise at all.
I think that the suicide affected Shep and Frank both equally. However, Frank tries to forget and escape from his sadness (and possibly guilt) by working and abandoning his children.
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