I have a few thoughts on the meaning of the necklace of tongues. I suppose I'll just talk about them here, as there's a good chance I'll be off on some of them anyway.
First, perhaps most obviously, the necklace epitomizes the horror of war. Cutting someone's tongue out is pretty vicious.
With this of course, the tongue could represent Mary Anne's transformation - or more universally, the loss of innocence/dehumanization war brings to all its participants. The tongue exemplifies how drastically Mary Anne has changed; it symbolizes her complete embracement of the culture of war and Vietnam. She has been consumed by Nam just as war is apt to swallow any of us (see what I did there?). Indeed, Mary Anne is just of many striking examples O'Brien offers of how war makes affects people dramatically and makes them do things they would otherwise not (like kill others and cut out tongues).
The tongues could also represent silence. Tongues, of course, are necessary for speech. The idea of silence - the war stories that, for one reason or another, are never told - is a major theme in O'Brien's novel.
(I apologize for the subpar title, but it was either that or the infinitely lamer "Tongue Twister")
edit: I believe this was the assignment. We were supposed to blog about tonight's reading as well?
edit 2: Incidentally, the necklace of tongues reminded me of this. Just like this parasite does to fish, the war has consumed the novel's characters and became an consuming, permanently attached parasitic part of them.
23 comments:
Well said Clark.. you basically said everything I came up with for the significance of the tongue necklace, and more.. To avoid repeating everything you just said, I'll just say add on to what you said about silence as the resonant theme of the novel-
In removing or cutting out a human's tongue, you take away their ability to communicate. And without communication, one cannot speak..So Mary Anne wears a necklace of tongues to signify the inability to communicate- for both the people she or others killed in the war and for herself. Clearly, her actions speak louder than her words.
Throughout the entire book, I have to admit that I thought this scene was one of the most disturbing parts. I agree with Clark that the tongue represents the ongoing theme of silence. With the creation of her necklace, Mary Anne permanently silences herself. It's at this point in the chapter when we see the real transformation of her personality, and especially how she begins to talk less and less.
Also, I thought it was a good point how the tongues could be symbolic of Mary Anne's enswalloment (I definitely made that word up) into the war. The tongues definitely show her loss of innocence and her sudden understanding of the severity of Vietnam.
I also agree with all these ideas, and Clark, i think that fish thing was just really pretty weird. Just to add on a little bit, the tongues could be Mary Ann silencing the male soldiers in the war or society, because as a woman she had been silenced. She was the stereotypical innocent woman until she began to fight. By doing so she was not silent, and was silencing those who thought Vietnam was no place for a woman.
I agree with Clark on the necklace representing silence, Mary Anne's transformation through her submersion into Nam culture, and the loss of innocence through war. The reasons for this have already been explained.
The sparknotes says it represents her desire to be part of Vietnamese culture- she wanted to "eat Vietnam"- and I don't really understand this. Any thoughts as to what they mean?
So I agree as with everyone else about the meanings of the necklace of tongues. I especially agree with the idea of how it relates to silence (a major theme in the book). There really isn't much else to say anyway, but I do want to say that personally I think that the necklace is weird and disturbing.
nice clark....i agree with everyone's point, especially how the necklace represents war's loss of innocence factor, and in Vietnam, one of the most mature wars in history.
But before I reiterate what everyone has already said, I would like to comment on Charlie's post...I believe that when Mary Anne says she wants to "eat Vietnam," it simply strengthens the loss of innocence theme. I say this because it could resemble the change in characterization for Mary Anne, and this quote conveys her aggressiveness that has developed since her arrival. I'm sure that if it were at the beginning of the chapter, it would have said "she believed that Vietnam would eat her."
I agree with most of things that everyone has been saying. Personally, I think that it is important to identify how it relates to the theme of silence. I think Katie brought up a good point about how Mary Anne's actions spoke louder than her words. I feel that this is another part of the theme of silence being that many devastating actions take place in war with little to no communication.
I definitely agree with what everyone is saying. Erica, I agree with your point about the role of women. After being silenced for so long, Mary Ann proves that women are just as capable as men, silencing the men and their sexist attitudes.
Charlie, I think the idea of "eating Vietnam" is interesting. I think Clayton makes a valid point about the change in Mary Ann's aggressiveness. More specifically, I think they were referring to how curious Mary Ann is about Vietnam and how this passion grows. She gets immersed in the war, ultimately causing her transformation.
Really Charlie? Way to be. Can't even give you a great book without you looking at the sparknotes. Noble.
Anyway, some impressive comments here. A nice intro Clark, and certainly a sound summation of the points we will talk about in the morning. And Katie did a fantastic job of bringing it back to the theme of the book as a whole. Now... maybe someone could start talking about tonight's chapters?
I thought tonight's reading was really interesting. It was nice to learn more about Henry Dobbins' character. To me it seemed like Henry is the most happy-go-lucky and more thoughtful than the others when it comes to the war.
The last two chapters where O'Brien talks about the man he killed were really powerful. The repeated description of the way the man looked made it clear that that was all O'Brien could think about; the image was burned in his head.What made it more powerful for me was the background story that was given for the man because it humanized him. Here is a guy fighting for a war so he won't shame his family and he has dreams and goals and a life. This man is just like everyone else fighting in the war and it really put everything into perspective.
i didnt even think about how you use your tongue to swallow - thats a good connection. i like ericas point about how she silences the sexism because she was originally silenced by the men [they didnt want her to go to the dangerous towns - or even come to vietnam]
i think the most interesting part from tonight's reading is tim's haunting guilt that he killed someone. for any of us - that would be normal, like im terrified of driving because im scared ill hurt someone and have that guilt for the rest of my life. i couldnt deal with that. but he was a soldier where death surrounded him completely. his job was to fight. and i find it interesting that in a war so brutal that he only killed one man. i think it shows a lot about his character and makes him more relatable at least to me. he killed the "enemy" yet he is completely haunted by it and cant get the image of this man coming out of the fog - how he was probably a scholar, and after the war, would do something great and focus on education. he obviously has no way of knowing any of this is true of the stranger, but he adds to his own guilt - illustrating his morale and encompassing conscience. he even has trouble admitting that he killed anyway -- i guess to his young daughter thats different, but i dont think he can ever fully forgive himself. at the same time though, he tries to justify himself in saying that "there were no thoughts of killing, just making him go away, evaporate" (133). here, i think he shows the surrealism of the war and how he just goes through the motions, not even knowing the weight of his actions.
also, i liked stockings and church because of the hopefullness and how Dobbins wears the stockings for the magic even though his girlfriend broke up with him. hes actually probably my favorite "character" thus far. i think hes honest and just has the right attitude about life, despite being in the war.
sorry this was long!
admitting that he killed anyONE*
Anna's got well-stated points about taking the side of the Vietcong for once. The man was doing what in his village was deemed right; the Americans were invaders, and they should be resisted. I think the moment really shows how frightening war can be. Even the sight of the enemy, completely oblivious of them, prompted O'Brien to throw the grenade. The kid himself was frightened, and emphasis was placed on how he never wanted to be a soldier, how he had the makings of a "scholar." O'Brien is probably showing either pity, regret, or both in his immobility after the incident.
I think that O’Brien’s guilt for this one man shows the weight guilt has on soldiers throughout the whole war. Imagine the soldiers, who kill many many other people, they would have so much guilt. This shows the effects that war has on the soldiers and how they never are the same after, and never stop reliving what happened.
The emotional effect of war is also shown by Mary Anne ‘s loss of herself as a result of the war. She transforms from a bubbly, flirtatious girl to a serious, solemn woman. She wears the necklace of human tongues to represent what she doesn’t want to say, about the war and how she feels, and to represent her power of her silence as in comparison to before when Fossie controls her.
Mary Anne appears to believe herself to be higher than the medics and, eventually, all of the men. She separates herself from those who heal to join those who kill, and in accepting that role she takes the necklace.
The tongues on there are stuck in a long, narrow position,not the way tongues are at rest (wide and flat). This may imply a certain sadism, that the tongues were out either screaming or in a threatening gesture.
In the end, it shows that killer instinct remains with you. At the end she is wearing her old clothes, but is running wild and still has the tongue necklace.
I liked how O'Brian talked about the life of the man he killed as well. It seemed like O'Brian had a lot in common with the perceived personality of the man, which further illustrated that this is not the traditional war story- this is a story that examines humanity and human connections.
I definitely agree with the points said on guilt. O'Brien feels a major sense of shame after killing a man during the war and has trouble forgiving himself for what he has done. I think he has an epiphany at this point realizing how his actions could affect someone in the war and affect himself as an outcome of a death he caused. After he tells his daughter that he had never killed a soldier in war, he regrets it right away which i find compelling in the fact that he is almost trying to still convince himself it never actually happened. He realizes this image of the death will never fade and will remain with him forever.
I think that the main reasoning for the tongue necklace is basically the same as what everyone else had already said. It adds to the theme of storytelling, one would be unable to tell a story without a tongue. ( we know that). It also has to do with the changes of Mary Anne's personality from being "the girl next door" to a ruthless brute.
Im at such a disadvantage by doing the blog so late. Everyone has basically said everything by the time i get here.
OK, so about Mary Anne- I completely agree with the Silence thing. I think the lack of ability to speak without a tongue is critical, and represents both what is and is not spoken as well as serves as a physical and/or metaphorical memorial to those that have been silenced/are without a voice. (AKA, they're dead).
I have to say that the last two chapters (The man I killed and Ambush) were even harder for me to read than the Curt Lemon and baby buffalo incident. To be honest, the way that O'Brien can't even bring himself to place himself directly in the situation in "The Man I Killed" was just chilling. It scared me way more than the gore and crazy emotion in other chapters. He didn't even use "I." It sort of went back to how the first chapter was with the listing of what the people carried... except it was talking about the traits this man had. And then when O'Brien finally does actually place himself into the story and explain how it happened, it is very detailed and methodical, leaving nothing out. But yet O'Brien said specifically that he did NOT tell his daughter the actual story. He was just imagining how it would be. Here again is the theme of silence and what is not spoken as opposed to what is. He is able to recount that guilt and doubt with great clarity, but only in the hypothetical. For me this was just a really eerie chapter to read.
Oh, and also, O'Brien says that the boy's cheek and mouth were blown away, and both of these are pretty necessary for speaking, I would think. So that's the idea of silence again.
And by the way... Clark, that fish thing is completely gross.
Charles, I think the "eating" thing is pretty much like what's been said about the war swallowing and consuming its participants.
Anyways, I thought tonight's reading was relatively interesting. I thought the two chapters on Henry Dobbins (a name that makes me think of Henry Francis Chapman, incidentally) were particularly of note as they focused on superstition/religion. The fact that the Henry and the men turn to superstition and religion perhaps shows that in the chaos of war, any hope the men can cling on to is essential, even if it is irrational. Also, these two chapters are pretty peaceful and highlight the good characteristics in the men. Kiowa has moral qualms about using a church as a base, and Henry agrees, saying "You're right. All you can do is be nice. Treat them decent, you know?" (12). The presence of some conscience and morality sharply contrasts with the rest of the novel.
This of me as crazy, but... I think that the tongue necklace could very well represent this sort of virginity... This could relate to Joan of Arc and create this sort of virgin warrior who created this chaos and sort of changed the war in a way... I have no supporting evidence to back this up though sadly enough, hope I'm right though!!!
This tongue idea is also what all of you said... *i guess...* I also think it could also have to do with this slow and painful death. Did you know that if you bite off your own tongue or lose it, it pretty much means your dead? This could relate to this slow and agonizing death that Mary Anne (and all the characters at that) have. Mary Anne is still in that forest, WITH the tongue necklace and all, it sorta creates this agony in my head...
I think that the tongue is pretty much those two things (chaos and agony). It is in the book to create a sort of chaos and mixed feelings for the reader. It even puts the reader in the characters' shoes since you can imagine and see it *shiver*. The tongue idea I think is supposed to also help us relate or at least imagine more easily.
I know that i missed the time to blog in, but i woke up this morning and thought i might as well try to blog.(Better late than never).
The tongue necklace was really confusing because i did not quite understand how she made a necklaces out of tongue, but then again, i have never actually seen a dried tongue (let alone, a whole necklace of them). Like Clark said, tongues represent speech because tongues are needed to talk. This could represent one of the themes of silence(already said by Clark whose post i read looking for the exact question). Additionally, the tongue is greatly needed in order to swallow (as learned in bio)and if there is not a tongue, it is harder to swallow. Could this be O'Brien's commentary on how the USA perceived the war (as in they kept protesting it and never just "swallowed" the information given) and how he will never be able to "swallow" his memory of killing and forget it.
i agree with katie as to why tounges were used as supposed to other body parts. without your tounge you cant talk and by removing the tounges, you are silencing everyone. she is silencing the male soilders who dont believe in her, silencing her boyfriend who has lost faith in her, and silencing herself, sucking her further into the nam mentality.
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