In the latest letter we read, there is a more in-depth detailing of the relationship between Oskar's grandmother and grandfather. Distinct pages also separate this story from that between Thomas and Anna. At the end of the letter Thomas notes how he is leaving, but not out of selfishness. Then, why does he leave?
It is a bit unclear what he means by "I can't live, I've tried and I can't" (135). He does note that Oskar's grandma has chosen to live and succeeded. What is the difference between these two characters?
While Thomas writes in his book and cannot say a thing, Oskar's grandma is the opposite. Everything she puts in the typewriter comes out blank. Though in actuality that is Thomas's fault because he had pulled out the ribbon for typing, she does not even realize she is typing blank pages. This may be Nothing to someone outside looking at it, but it is Something to her who had typed what she wanted to type. The distinction between Nothing and Something is, I think, based on perspective in this letter. I also think that their personal tragedies have led them to question life. It is no longer just a period of time, but one made up of rules that must be followed because they are right. The two make up what seems to be ridiculous rules on how to live in their home, but I think they are trying to create safe havens to protect themselves from outside influences.
What is the distinction between Nothing and Something, and how is it important?
18 comments:
I definitely thought this chapter was a very revealing chapter to the reader and made the entire relationship between Oskar's grandparents much more clear. The marriage between his grandma and Thomas is definitely out of convenience, even though it does seem as if Thomas has sporadic bursts of affection for Grandma. I don't think that the pair are truly compatible, considering they both seem to have a great deal of emotional baggage; Thomas is still hung up on Anna and Grandma is simply looking for someone to relieve her loneliness.
To answer Derek's question, I think it's most important to examine the rate at which Something becomes Nothing in the grandparents' apartment. While, at first, a few areas were designated to be Nothing to serve as a peaceful getaway, over time Nothing areas begin to take over the apt. as both grandparents fail to confront their problems. Instead of trying to alleviate their sadnesses, each ignores their own problem, contributing to this feeling of complete Nothing throughout the apartment. The theme of silence is particularly resonant in this chapter as nothing is truly spoken, yet they each try to write their life stories. I think the silence eventually led to Thomas' leaving, as he couldn't bear the tension and guilt he felt surrounded in Nothing.
I think it is interesting that the letter is from Thomas' perspective, because the reader sees what is Nothing and what is Something to him. I think the designation of Nothing and Something is more a peace of mind then anything else. To both the characters, the items and space they share can not be Something because they do not share anything emotionally. They are physically stuck in this relationship because of their needs. I think the Nothing areas just represent the increasing separation between the two characters and how their lives are empty because they have no connection what so ever. I think this idea follows through when the pages of the Grandmother's story are blank; although she is writing Something, it comes out as nothing.
As with what Rebecca said, the chapter was very revealing and I, and it creates a trend in the story, showing that Oskar's entire family has had some very distinct behavior. But it was also interesting to see how Foer condenses two separate stories into one, maybe meaning that different generations can experience the same problems. Anna and Oskar's grandfather seem very similar, but the real differences seem to lie between Thomas, who is very silent and reserved, and Oskar's grandmother, who is outgoing. The difference between nothing and something, in my opinion, represents the things that Oskar's grandmother considers to be important, and unimportant, as per how she sets the rules with her husband. Overall, it was a very difficult chapter to read and I didn't understand several parts.
I feel that the things in Oskar's grandparents' apartment represent their life together, as their marriage becomes nothing, just like the apartment. Like Rebecca said, they are not compatible, and the marriage was just convenient for them. Grandma's loneliness shows not only her incompatibility to Thomas, but also her compatibility with Oskar, because Thomas keeps to himself while Oskar wants to be involved with everything. He tries to make people laugh, just as Grandma is outgoing too. I really think that the confusion in this chapter was intentionally done to make everything Foer wrote turn into nothing for the reader, because no one can fully understand it.
I think that this Nothing and Something relation guides the relationship between the two character like Olivia said. But like what was mentioned before, the Nothing areas of the apartment suddenly seem to be appearing more often and at a faster rate. Each type of area has its own set of rules, which may be why Thomas has such a hard time adjusting to these changes. Also I like Olivia's point about how the letter is from Thomas's perspective because it brings up a good point. We really do not know how the Grandma feels about the Nothing and Something rules. Maybe if the letter was from a different perspective, the meaning of the Nothing and Something areas would change drastically.
Im not sure if Im assuimg too much, but i think Oskar's grandfather may have killed himself. He truly isnt leaving out of selfishness, but because of his selflessness. However, he gave himself to Anna, she had his "center" so once she is gone, he cannot live. He promises never to write another word, and he doesnt speak, so I think he was leaving her to die, and be out of the pain and Nothingness. or, he could have just gone somewhere to wait to die.
clearly thomas and grandmother differ in how they cope with the loss of Anna. while they both have so much emotional baggage, the grandmother and sister of Anna is able to live her life, in stead of fading with Annas. Contrastingly, Thomas cannot speak or survive without being in Nothing - and thus feeling as though he has disappeared. At the same time, the grandmother uses the rules -- simlilarly to Oskar, in order to cope and make life easier. However, the rules only add frustration to Thomas.
There is little distinction between Nothing and Something -- i agree with Becca. Whats significant is how quickly something becomes nothing. within two years, almost their entire apartment is absolved in Nothing - so almost anywhere they go they are unable to see each other, because they do not exist.
How existential (or not?).
Something and Nothing are indeed matters of perspective; just witness the confusion between Thomas and Anna as to which is which. Sort of like "one man's trash is another man's treasure". Actually, when one considers it, nothing is Nothing, and everything is Something (to somebody).
That said, as others have pointed out, Nothing is emblematic of the pointlessness, emptiness, and failure that is the relationship/marriage between Anna and Thomas.
On another note, I found it interesting that, throughout this entry, Thomas/JSF repeatedly asked something along the lines of "What time is it?" This may be a tad farfetched, but they may be suggesting that without anything - and too much of Nothing - any notion of time disappears (I believe this would, in fact, be scientifically sound).
At the risk of sounding corny, I also don't think that Thomas killed himself - except on the inside.
We cannot edit comments? I am not sure I am a fan of that.
Anyways, I also found it interesting that throughout the reading there are repeated distinctions between "real" (Something) and "imaginary". On, Thomas has imaginary tears while Anna has real tears. Thomas talks about invisible walls and paintings on the next page (after, incidentally, a doorknob which signals significance to something around that part). And Anna's life, as shown by what she typed of it, is effectively Nothing. Maybe everything is actually Nothing (or again, maybe it is just a matter of perspective)?
I think that Nothing and the increasing of Nothing spaces displays the loneliness that both grandparents feel. They try to overcome this by getting married and being together, but it is not working. In fact, I feel that the forced relationship is worse emotionally than the pure loneliness. This is why they create Nothing spaces. Additionally, I do believe that Thomas leaving is selfless. After the life story incident, he feels guilty and realizes that he is not helping the grandmother. She is not moving past her problems or developing as a person. Therefore, he leaves for her benefit.
Ok, so... First off, I'm quite sure that Thomas didn't kill himself Liz. I think that Thomas will play a very important part in the future of the book based on my hypothesis which i refuse to share :P. Also, is it just me or did Thomas's wife seem to be blind. On the last few pages, Thomas kept talking to wifey through physical contact, like touching her breast and pointing or touching the eyes and the mouth and stuff. Maybe I just mixed up flashbacks there, but it was towards the end of the Ch in the 130s.
Thomas seems to say that Nothing is a burden. He created the idea and expanded it and said that it was a great thing, but in the end, don't you notice that it wasn't even brought up any more? Above that, we see that he kept complaining bout things lost in the Nothing zone and how he mixed up Somethings and Nothings.
BTW, I don't know why it said I came in as Millburn, but this was the fantastically flashy Laminator speaking
I'm not sure exactly what the distinction is but I think he's saying that all the Nothing's became too hard. It became confusing and all of a sudden the Nothing started to sort of consume their lives. It was hard for them to make the distinction too. Also for Thomas to see that the Grandma is trying to speak and say Something, but cannot is deeply hurting him. Especially because she is unaware, he doesn't know how to help her, and he himself cannot say anything.
And i could be wrong but I'm pretty sure she was blind..
i definitely agree that the blank pages represented the life that both the grandparents shared. It consisted of a mutual feeling but the two felt nothing so it was a non existent love. I believe the the grandparents started out with nothing and tried to build it into something referring to love. Ultimately this fails and results in nothing because the two cannot build a love that never existed. The original relationship between them started out from mere loneliness and both felt being married would be the solution to feeling lonely. It resulted in the realization that love cannot be a created emotion but needs to be felt not forced.
I agree with Rebecca, i think that Thomas only married Oskars grandmother to relieve his lonlieness, but also to feel closer to Anna because in this chapter we see how much in love they were before he lost her. So i actually think that the Grandmother is a replacement. Thomas says he doesnt leave out of selfishness, but i think he is being selfish. I think he leaves because he can no longer bear to live with this woman who he doesnt like very much, who is supposed to be replacing Anna, so he leaves. That is unfair to not only his wife, but to his unborn son.
In this case, nothing is MORE than something. It shows the loneliness, and emptyness the couple has in their life and it is more significant to them in particular than the somethings that they have. Their outlook on life is focusing on the bad aspects instead of what they do have. For example, Thomas looks at not having Anna, and then the something he has is her sister, which he should appreciate and try and make it work with her.
I thought this chapter was revealing but at the same time, it kept things hidden and locked up. It is insightful and interesting but it's also complicated and confusing. What's kept hidden and locked up is the real difference between nothing and something. In and of itself, both words signify ambiguous matters- what's nothing to someone is something to someone else, and vice versa. For that reason, I think it's impossible to be able to determine a tangible difference between the two. On the surface- nothing is the blank pages of the grandmother's life story. But to the grandmother- on the inside- it is not just something but it's everything. So- the difference is based on opinion. It is relative to humans who decide what is nothing and what is something. I think it's not a difference- it's really a separation.
I definitely think that the something and nothing idea is there to reinforce the theme of silence. These characters have so much pain to cope with that they actually choose to erase things from their lives. The Grandpa chose spoken word and the Grandma chose written. And in both cases they lose bits of themselves. (Literally and metaphorically, since they had the "places to become nothing" outlined in the house).
I think the initial difference between the two was the same as everyone else has said- to give Thomas and Grandma their own private spaces, with Thomas needing one the most. However, as the letter progresses, this system of Something vs. Nothing seems to get out of control, and it seemed to me as though it became a way for each person to have a little bit of control in their boring relationship. Their lives are pretty uneventful, and separating the apartment between what exists and what doesn't gives them a little bit more of a say in what happens in their lives.
I also think this nothing represents Thomas's emptiness. After he lost Anna, he gives himself little purpose in life; the idea of a tangible nothing seems to either fill that void or add to it and satisfy his realization of what he's lost.
This chapter shows, in my opinion, how thomas and the grandmother are needed by each other. Grandma is the voice of thomas while Thomas is the eyes of the GRandma.
By thomas saying that quote, he is portraying the fact that he cannot get over the death of anna because he does not want to live without her. This then shows that he is stuck in stage 1 or denial because he refuses to move on with his life.....
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